Long term economic improvement or short term civil rights?

[Robert Chism]

The reason I ask this question is to find out from older people who actually lived through the 60's civil rights movement how they would choose? I would also like to  know from my generation how you would choose? While researching Arthur George Gaston I read that one of his biggest disagreements with Dr.King was that we needed long term economic improvement vs short term civil rights.

   Now off the top of my head I can tell you I would choose long term economic improvement over short term civil rights. Why you ask? Even with the decent job I have now,I truly don't know what it feels like to be economically empowered,but I know how it feels to be broke! Which brings about another question. Do you think the short term civil rights blurred the vision of long term economic improvement?

   Even after the movement I do believe it was still hard on people of color economically. Growing up in the 70's/80's there are many things I can think of my mother wanted for me that she couldn't afford,because of her economic situation. Private school,piano lessons, a saxophone when I started playing,just to name a few things. She did the best she could with what she had. Now I find myself doing for my child what my mother wanted for me but because of her economic condition couldn't.

   As far as civil rights goes,I was born on the Ides of March 1971 so I missed the 60's movement,but I felt it later. It seems to me that it took almost 20 years for Brown V. Board of Education to come around full swing. And when it did I was caught smack in the middle of it. My mother graduated 1968,and Dad 1967 both from Lester High School in Memphis Tn. Neither ever attended a desegregated school. Ahhhh but that would change for their first born child who was born into this new era of so called equality. The first school I went to was.... you got it Lester!!!! I can still remember my kindergarten teachers name,Carolyn Higgins. And get this Ms.Higgins was a white women,but I still have found memories of her! I think she was a flower child lol,she wore wire frame glasses like John Lennon. This only lasted a year,my first grade year I was apart of the mass exodus of colored children out of their community for the sake of civil rights. I can tell you now,I HATED every day of the first grade! Richland elementary is where we where bussed off to if you lived on the northern side of Johnson ST. If you were on the South side it was Graham Wood. I hated the bus ride,I hated the school,I hated the teacher,and she was BLACK! She treated us like trash,but as I look back on it,I don't think she wanted to be there either. Maybe she was scared for her job I don't know,but what I do know is she treated the little white kids like they were angels,and treated us like MUD. This was my first experience of being called a NIGGER,COON,and SPOOK. I can't forget this one" I can't touch you because my dad/mom said black would rub off on me" This was a lot for a 6 year old in 1977 who had no clue to what the real world was like. Very traumatizing indeed. When we were looking for a elementary school for our daughter,Richland was one of the most suggested schools that came up on a consistent basis. I refused to send my child there because of the emotional scars it left upon me. Now here recently talking to my dad I found out he hated me going there just as bad as I hated it. I think the only thing I truly learned at Richland was how to tell time. 3 o'clock couldn't get there fast enough for me!

   

  Now for second grade! Instead of going to school from Binghampton, I went to school from my address in North Memphis. I don't know why I'll ask my mom( she may be reading this and answer.) We stayed in the Klondike community. Speed and Vollintine. Now would somebody tell me with Klondike elementary 3 streets over,why in the hell was I again bussed to the other side of town? This time deep in the heart of Frayser Tn. This just doesn't sound right to me? Whitney elementary was the school this time. Whitney wasn't as bad because there were more black kids,but still a racial overtone hung over our heads everyday. More so from the teachers,probably didn't want to be there teaching the little black kids?  The only thing good I got from Whitney was a life long friend who was also bussed from the Klondike community also. It didn't take long for me to figure out I was inferior. I didn't know that,but that was the program that was running. Why would I say that? Because that is how I felt,like I wasn't good enough because of the color of my skin. Remember I was only 7 years old,and the program was doing what it was designed to do! I remember one day standing in the kitchen telling my mom I want to be WHITE and that I was tired of being black. She asked me why and I told her they get everything they want,and they're RICH. I can't remember everything she told me,but I do remember her being upset,not because I said it,but because the program was working. She probably still to this day doesn't know thats why she was so upset. The Program. 

  Needless to say the next year,and the rest of my elementary years were spent at Klondike elementary. Some of the best years of my life. Jr. High was East and Bellevue,and by the time I got there it was so heavily integrated people of color were the majority. High School was Northside High School,amidst all the untrue rumors of how bad Northside was,I had the time of my life!!! So I would take the long term economic power any day over the short term civil rights. It seems to me all the short term civil rights did was to fuck me up mentally. Here I am damn near 40 and still coping with this shit and trying to deprogram years and years of programming! Yeah I'd rather have economic power,not be broke,and have my community empowered. I don't need law to force people to befriend me that don't really want to,hell I dont want to befriend their knuckle draging asses either.  All of my less melanated friends aren't my friends because of a LAW.It's because we have common interest,or enjoy common conversation,and they stand up vertical,and don't drag their knuckles. I know a few of my colored people who are still dragging their knuckles also(program still running). Anyway that was on my mind this morning,and I wanted a few thoughts from other people on this topic.<Photo 2>

[Clifford Black]

You say that you woke up this morn thinking. Sounds to me like you are waking up to more than just another day. This is how it starts and now you are ready to enjoy the first grade.
(B)

[E Donelson II]

Yeah we first graders are in for some really eye opening learning. I am reading (as directed) about the white proletariat settlers. It gives me information that is vital to the investigation. See that's what we first graders have to do; we are learning to investigate.
~E!

[Clifford Black]

Learning how to be Sherlock Shomberg

[Clifford Black]

I think that those of us who are serious may want to go back and review this post and maybe try this again. There is so much talk about understanding and yet there is so little work being done. This is an abstract of history that must be investigated.
(B)
Please, if you have a story to tell about the period known as civil rights or intergration, we need your input......
(B)

[Kym Alexander]

Robert, this makes me sad, sad, sad. I was born in 1975 and we lived in Raleigh and I would have been bussed to Caldwell, but my parents divorced and sold our home and my mother moved us to an apartment in Germantown so I would go to a neighborhood school. And yes, most likely so I would go to a rich white school. My best friends in kindergarten was an exchange student from China and a so called black girl. My memories of them are fond, but I wonder if I talked to them today, how different their story would be. See, I was privileged. We lived in an apartment, which in Germantown made us poor, which is absolutely ludicrous. But another friend of mine Timmy, was a so called black boy who lived on a farm, those farms on Germantown Road were little more than shacks, so while I imagined that he lived with cows and chickens, his parents probably scraped by while he was bussed to a new rich suburb with kids whose parents didn't worry about feeding their children next week. White kids are rich for the most part, and in our community especially, the economic divide is hugely dependent on skin color.
What has gone on in our country especially in regards to poverty and skin color is abysmal and so immoral that all other conversation by any group on the type of country with strong family values that we need to "return" to is utter and complete BULL SHIT. Until we purge ourselves of the crime we have perpetrated in every way, politically, socially, culturally and economically, we are an immoral culture that will never progress. The day of reckoning is coming, as all become the lower class and the rich who have benefited from these lies come more into view as they take more and more of the pie. Maybe soon this lie will be exposed to all.

[Clifford Black]

More, more, more may be the answer or it might at least start getting some of the runners onto the track!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11
(B).
Thank YOU KYM.

[Craig]

@Kym! Thanks for your reply:

"What has gone on in our country especially in regards to poverty and skin color is abysmal and so immoral that all other conversation by any group on the type of country with strong family values that we need to "return" to is utter and complete BULL SHIT. Until we purge ourselves of the crime we have perpetrated in every way, politically, socially, culturally and economically, we are an immoral culture that will never progress. The day of reckoning is coming, as all become the lower class and the rich who have benefited from these lies come more into view as they take more and more of the pie. Maybe soon this lie will be exposed to all."

Your reply made me play my tape back and take at look at a few things. Are we products or solutions to problems? I/we seem to be PRODUCTS to some extent of our environments, whether we like it or not. No matter how hard I/we try I/we can't escape. I grew up in the 50's in East St. Louis, Illinois. At that time there were 89,000 plus in the town, right across the river from the growing Gateway to the West, St. Louis, Mo. East St. Louis was a booming town with major Steel Foundries, chemical factories (Monsanto and Phizer), stock yards, access to General Motors and Budweiser. There were major universities in the area, professional football, basketball, and baseball in the area. East St. Louis in my judgment, was 30 percent Black when I was born. I, vaguely, remember the city had separate/segregated movie theaters, shopping areas, and social establishments, like taverns, clubs, etc. The Mayor was white, the police chief was white, the powerful were white. The area's history involved the notorious Dillinger, Al Capone, and the notorious Buster Wortman, real live GANGSTERS!

Most neigborhoods and schools were segregated but I went to school with white and Black kids. I never had to ride a bus to school. My father started working at the packing house, my mother worked as a civil servant for Scott Air Force Base. Pops finished school, began to teach, became a poitician, and retired an administrator. Momma progressed in the government ranks, got qualified as a computer operator, started teaching at a local junior college and retired as a senior analyst for the government. My grandmother married into politcs, her husband was a Black republican, District Attorney and retired with plenty of rental proerty and some wealth, comparatively speaking. My mother inherited what her mother inherited. My father retired and inheritied what his wife inherited.

The landscape of East St. Louis has changed in the last 50 years. During my elementary school days I had several white friends. In junior high school I had the same white friends. In high school something changed! The city had become 60 to 70 per cent Black. The bulk of the jobs were still held by whites. The schools were still good. The education was still quality! The streets were still paved! I didn't have any white friends. I had a few acquaintances not many real friends. I am not sure what happened! I never had any Asian or Hispanic friends. They didn't live in my neighborhoods or go to my schools/churches. I will continue this reflection to see who I really am, but it is showing me that regardless of how hard I try, I have become this so-called product of my environment, socially, mentally, economically, politically, etc. Thank you so much for your post!

East St. Louis is now 100% Black, Black Mayor, no jobs, 1 high school, 29,000 plus citizens incorporate the "city". The area still is populated but the demographics of ESL is like Orange Mound or Walker Homes in South Memphis. I currently live in Desoto County, Mississippi on 5 acres, well really 40 acres of my wife's family land. We own and have cleared 5 acres. I have been in the Navy, gotten degrees from Morehouse and Ole Miss. These things don't define me but, I'm sure contribute to the end result. Now I teach school in Memphis, Tn and I see the circle of madness. There are mostly Black students at the school where I teach but there are also Asian and a growing poplulation of Hispanics. The material taught is the same as when I went to school, the teachers try, the kids are different/same bt most of their circumstances are different. Some ride the bus. Not sure why? It goes on and on and on and on! What will be the porduct, I am producing or contributing to? Thanks again for your post!

[Clifford Black]

Namaska Bro. C,
I am going to have to THANK both YOU and Kym because you are both taking us in-to where this awareness needs to go in order for some of us to plug in-to plug into what is happening right before our eyes.
(B)

[Clifford Black]

the above is a direct response to Kym and Craig!!!!!!

[Kym Alexander]

It is truly as if once the school's were integrated that the truth of what was needed just got completely lost. "Well everyone can go to the same places, go to the same schools, work in the same places, it is all equal and fair now." That access was opportunity, that it was all that was needed to make life an equal playing field.

No attitudes were ever addressed. And it seems as if the very beliefs that were held began to be played out in reality. It's such a deep and complex conundrum. It may be the most important question of my entire life. It began for me when I was about 4 years old (a story I'll tell another time) and has been a huge undercurrent of my entire life.

If I could have one wish, it would be to learn enough, to find enough courage and truth to fight this fight.

[Craig]

Kym > I hear you! Let's do this! My mind often becomes overwhelmed so I have to take breaks too! (smile)

[Aaron (Al) Lewis]

Kym, whatever you do, do not attempt to do it alone. It will overwhelm and hurt you deeply. You are dealing with primal fears and a long and deeply ingrained ignorance.